Author Topic: Universal Credit and related Regulations: a call for evidence 15 June 2012  (Read 2061 times)

Ravenswyrd

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This will effect all people trying to go self employed and start their own business which doesn't seem like our thing but self employment is one of the most common  ways the disabled create an income, and eventually leave benefits... read this article first... http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2012/06/23/universal-credit-self-employment-and-the-minimum-wage/  The consultation is here....http://ssac.independent.gov.uk/consult.shtml
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Weary One

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This looks utterly appauling. How anyone is going to be able to manage to survive this new harsh regime is beyond me. :(

I just don't know what to say to this really.

HazelAngelstar

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i've been in tears since reading this.  I am disabled and my husband is my full time carer.  We are both qualified to teach Reiki healing, and he has just started up a new business this year, teaching Reiki and giving treatments on a part-time basis - and I am able to work with him on a permitted work basis as my health allows.   The  business has been going 3 months now - and we have done 2 weekend courses, with another course in a few weeks - and neither of us has taken any wages out yet, while the business gets started and covers all the start up costs. 

if this goes through - there is no way that our business can pay a wage equivalent to 35 hours minimum wage a week .... and it is heartbreaking to think that all the hard work and effort being put into establishing self employment for my husband - so that he has a life other than just as 'my carer' and a business that can be worked around my health issues .... and for to have to go in front of a government board to be told you dont meet their requirements ... its soul destroying. 

ElleDee

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I feel extremely upset by this too - I'm disabled and have been working part-time hours as an artist for the last 9 years to suit my mulitple health conditions (which are invisible but prevent me from going into a work environment - even if there were any jobs!). I don't earn much and the HMRC are aware of my problems and are quite satisfied with that. I can't even imagine what I will do as I wouldn't cope with intrusive assessments and don't earn enough to support myself without Tax Credits.   Are they going to put conditionality on people who are disabled does anyone know?  :(

FionaN

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Hi HazelAngelstar

I'm self-employed and I've been following this issue from the White Paper on Universal Credit at the end of 2010 through the passage of the Welfare Reform Act and now to the draft regulations which are out to consultation with the Social Security Advisory Committee which I looked at  when they came out recently.

I still don't think it is clear how it will pan out. The Tories are not going to be keen to stamp on enterprise and new business, which wouldn't normally be expected to make a profit in the first few years. (I say this as someone who has never voted for them, by the way, not as a staunch defender)

So I'm continuing to scrutinise all the documents and discussions in parliament on this.

Moggy Militant II

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I've also been following this too, Fiona. 

I am disabled and the only option to me, if I ever work , would be self-employment in the arts field but I am never going to earn enough a) because I am unable to put the hours in and b) the arts is by nature precarious.

The Sayce report showed that more disabled people than non-disabled people do self-employment due to their health conditions, working from home etc. 

They can't have it both ways, which they're trying to do.  BUT: if you are disabled you can
1) Do Permitted Work (this must also include self-employment)
2) If you're not going down that route, then under the Equality Act, an employer has to make 'reasonable adjustments' so a disabled person can work.  Now I would love to know who is responsible for 'reasonable adjustments' if you take the self-employment route. So, one reasonable adjustment is reduction in hours. But, and this is where I don't think they've thought it through at all, it is clear you're not going to make enough to live on if you're only working five hours a week, say.  So, the only way you would be able to have your income made up is via UC.  If they refused you, they would be denying you a job opportunity.

Also, there is an element of earnings disregards for people on the equivalent of ESA. It is quite complicated but there is an element included in UC all the same (provided you pass the WCA)

Ravenswyrd

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I suspect that there would have to be different conditionality for the disabled but i don't trust them to put it in place without a fight i to am self-employed since last october an no way my business will pay for a year or two. I'm already getting grief from work choice about level of income and im only doing 16hrs self employment now i can see where thats coming from... glad im not the only one worried about this and sorry i upset you guys...  :'(  Dxxx
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Toulouse31

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Another aspect of the new regime will punish people who invest in tools, stock or other business expenses in order to increase earnings.  Self employed people will now be required to report all income and business expenditure on a monthly basis as opposed to annually as under the present system.  Expenses will not be carried over to the next month.  This will mean if someone spends a couple of grand on stock this will only be reflected in their earnings for that month.  The new system will make it impossible for self-employed people  to invest on any significant level to improve their earnings.

The LEGAL reporting requirements for small business are ANNUAL, not monthly. (except for VAT which is monthly) introducing a new requirement, which takes no account of legal accounting  rules accepted accounts structure and  ONLY for disabled or lower paid/ business start ups cannot be legal. Govmt  want to CUT red tape according to their various web sites.

 2.2. What are the exemptions available for small companies? (from companies house)

Small companies can prepare and file simpler, less detailed accounts than those required by large and medium companies.
The requirements for companies subject to the small companies regime are set out in Parts 15 and 16 of the Companies Act 2006.  Further information on the detailed format and content of accounts for small companies can be found in the relevant regulations.


I havn't had time to look at much yet but as I had a small business partnership (Accounting /VAT/Payroll) which was not a limited company, and claimed tax credits as I was a single Mum of two and had to work around school hours .  My husband does have a ltd company. 
I would have been totally screwed by this, as I had (undiagnosed) back.shoulder issues for 15 years before finally getting too bendy and fibro fogged 1 year after I took a full time 35 hour job running an Accounts Dept. I just worked around my limitations and my girls as lots of us do/have I would probably still be working self employed if I hadn't taken a full time desk job which removed my ability to arrange my day, move around, go to the gym at lunch time.

to prepare monthly management accounts for head office  I used the usual accruals/prepayments system to arrive at the profit/loss balance sheet.  Using Cash Accounting it is impossible to get an accurate picture of the business monthly. All you would have is a snapshot of numbers with no relationship at all the the End of Year accounts required by Banks, HMRC. I have been out of the loop since 2004.

As a side note, if I had got 40% of my accounts, VAT and wages calculations wrong do you think my employers and customers would still have paid me? Thought not!!

Moggy Militant II

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So is it possible to do a joint consultation - I am getting consultation fatigue as well as fibro fatigue, and am coming to my limit regarding saying the same things over and over to the ConDems.  It is really a done deal, I fear, and the consultations are all lip service, but I still feel we should oppose rigorously. After all, the Cons are supposed to be the party of enterprise (haha!)

FionaN

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So is it possible to do a joint consultation - I am getting consultation fatigue as well as fibro fatigue, and am coming to my limit regarding saying the same things over and over to the ConDems.  It is really a done deal, I fear, and the consultations are all lip service, but I still feel we should oppose rigorously. After all, the Cons are supposed to be the party of enterprise (haha!)

The deadline for giving feedback on the Universal Credit draft regulations to the Social Security Advisory Committee is July 27th.
http://ssac.independent.gov.uk/consult.shtml

PIP Detailed Design consultation closes on June 30th (ie the end of the week) There is important stuff happening around the PIP Detailed Design consultation regarding stopping mobility payments when people are in hospital, trying out the new system first on young people etc. So that's a bigger and more urgent priority for me than the UC regs right now.
http://www.spartacusforum.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,333.0.html
http://www.spartacusforum.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1384.0.html

The Worcestershire Consultation doesn't close till the beginning of August but I have promised to get something done on that very soon, so those are my two Spartacus deadlines which I'll work on before the Universal Credit thingy here.

I've also got to write a memorandum on home education support for the Education Select Committee before July 9th, funding meeting on July 11th, and half a dozen presentations for conference workshops on home education as part of my day job before July 24th.

Realistically speaking I'm not really going to focus on the Universal Credit thingy till after Wednesday July 11th.

FionaN

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bumping this up

Fiona

jace

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On the discussion above, self employment conditionality for Universal Credit, this is what the explanatory memorandum says:

"162. With the exception of those who are not expected to work because of their personal circumstances/..."

"The Minimum Income Floor
166. The policy intent for applying a Minimum Income Floor (MIF) is to encourage and incentivise individuals to increase their earnings through developing their self employment. It is therefore critical that the MIF is set at an appropriate level. DWP are working with other government departments to determine what the optimum design will be so that claimants become less reliant on benefits

167. The MIF is intended to reduce the claimant’s award. We will not apply the MIF where the claimant is not in the “all work-related requirements” conditionality group, since there is no expectation that such claimants are working whilst claiming Universal Credit.

168. The conditionality regime recognises the limits that some claimants who are able to work have on the amount they can be expected to work, for example if they are the lead carer for a school-age child or have a physical impairment. In setting the final design of the MIF, we will carefully consider these tailored easements.

The Start-Up Period

169. If claimants satisfy the Gateway checks on their self-employment and are within one year of starting out in self employed activity, they will be eligible for the ‘Start-Up Period’. This is one year from the date of claim within which the Minimum Income Floor will not be applied. As a result, claimants’ Universal Credit award will be calculated based on their reported income, even if that is £0 in any assessment period. Claimants will be eligible for only one Start-Up period in their working lives.

170. Claimants in a Start-Up period will not be required to satisfy work-search or availability requirements. However, they will be required to attend quarterly adviser interviews at which the Gateway checks will be repeated to ensure that the claimants continue to meet these requirements. Claimants will be subject to a sanction if they do not attend these interviews without good reason. Claimants who are found to no longer satisfy the requirements will be required to seek other work and to satisfy full work-search and availability requirements."  (unless they have limited capacity for work, or severely limited capacity for work)

I'm not capable of scrutinising the actual regulations, so I'm not certain of my ground for saying this, but I believe people with disability will not have to earn the minimum wage for a 35 hour week, as we do not have the full work conditionality.

With regard to monthly accounting of cash in - cash out, this is just for how much UC you receive, not for judging your business viability in the first year (and that is only if you have full work capability) so I wonder if we've been worrying about this measure unnecessarily?  If you are starting up a business, you can hardly expect the state to compensate you for your purchases of plant and stock and such.  You would, though, in the months where you heavily invested, get the max. UC that you were eligible for. 

Every small business and sole trader should be keeping monthly cash accounts - it's key to a viable business, whether it's a complimentary therapist or heavy plant and machinery hire.  VAT is usually accounted for quarterly, but may be annually.  The VAT threshold is £77,000 (turnover - or all the money in without deducting anything) and hey, that's easier than in Spain, where if you are self employed you are registered for IVA (VAT) whatever you earn, and you account for both tax and IVA and pay your bill every three months.  I know these things, for my sins, and I have digressed rather.

I'm still concerned about monthly payments in arrears, because errors that mean incorrect non-payments will tip people into homelessness and abject poverty.  I'm also concerned about the gap between the current system of one and two weekly payments in arrears and the first UC payment.  I haven't yet found any information in the five documents on this consultation that I have open to reassure me on that.

I discover that as a single person of pensionable age, Universal Credit will not include me.  Pension Credit runs on.  Phew.  Still going to respond though.


x together we are strong x

FionaN

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I'm confused with this now. Are they saying you wouldn't claim self-employment subsidy under Universal Credit if you were on ESA because you'd already have the ESA money?

also hypothetically, if you met the eligibility criteria for ESA WRAG but your household income was too high so you didn't actually receive it (eg where partner is working ) what would the position be for universal credit and self-employment (because in that case you WOULDN'T have the ESA money?)


jace

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I think the ESA benefit will be limited to those who are eligible for Contribution related ESA.  All income related ESA will be taken into UC.  UC is a safety-net benefit including HB, IS, JSA and ESA for working age people only.  You will loose your UC on a taper (initially keeping 35p of every £1 you earn) until you reach a threshold. 

Disabled people have a higher earnings disregard than able bodied.  Whether the fact that you can do certain kinds of work (albeit limited and specialised) for money will impact on the results of a WCA is uncertain.

People will still have to undergo a WCA (ATOS assessment-type-thing) on UC to prove limited capacity for work (the WRAG) and severely limited capacity for work (the Support Group), which then exempts people from conditionality on self-employed earning and may attract an additional disability premium.  Am I right??
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 10:43 am by jace »
x together we are strong x

FionaN

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dunno, can't make head or tail of this but am suspicious!